part 2

You’re welcome. NIce to see you.

Right here?

No, it’s great. I’m a lot more comfortable than I was the last time we did this.

No kidding.

Much better, thank you. I get a little help.

Better living through chemistry.

Oh yeah.

Sure. Now?

Ok.

Is this mine?

Oh, I’ll need it.

I get dry when I’m nervous.

Well, yeah.

That’s different. I was in the middle of a crisis and somebody stuck a microphone in my face.

I’ll be fine.

Everything is different now. It helped for awhile though.

It was bound to happen. I get mountains of mail but until yesterday I could walk down the street and not get recognized. I expect those days are gone but I’m ok with it. My privacy isn’t much of a sacrifice compared to what I’ve been witness to.

Well, since I shot off my mouth in the Sudan, most of it’s from nutjobs of every description. Kind of shocking at first, but now I have people who intercept all that crap. Stuff, sorry.

Easy to understand though.

Not at all.

No, that’s fine, I think it’s instructive.

Well, to start with, I was traumatized and sleep deprived.

Yeah, I think it qualifies.

And it certainly wasn’t a considered philosophical position. Like something I’d come to as a result of systematic inquiry and analysis.

I think so. I felt more like a victim than the source. But it’s more important to ask if I would ever act to bring something like that about and the answer is, of course not.

Because it’s the only thing that really matters. Would you kill a person you don’t know for some bullshit ideological motive?

It’s a case of sticks and stones. Obviously what people believe is important, but it’s not dangerous as long as it stays in their heads. At the end of the day we’re all still alive and tomorrow there’s a chance we can work things out. The critical barrier is action. As soon as someone pulls a trigger everything changes.

It was an emotional response to extraordinary circumstances. That’s not an excuse, it’s an explanation.

No, no. Look, those feelings were real. It’s only natural when you see atrocities like that to want to visit revenge on the killers. But it’s another thing to jump from that perfectly natural response to the conclusion that an entire category of people deserve to die, from saying group A deserves to die because of what they did, to saying group B deserves to die because of what group A did. But . .

I know, but there’s more to it than that . .

Well, let me give you some context for everything. I’ve never been a violent person. I’ve always hated confrontation. I was a nerdy intellectual kid and when I got pushed around I never fought back. Add to that twenty years of reading newspapers and I came to the conclusion a long time ago that humans are violent and irrational. Then three dozen people were butchered right in front of me and I had to watch it live and in mental syndication for three days without any sleep. I’d had enough. I just wanted it to end, all of it. I think I just found the notion peaceful somehow.

Right. It led me to a place in my head that was totally free of it.

Yeah, and then I’d wake up and smell the stench of death. Back in the belly of the beast. I just couldn’t get away from it.

Well, that too.

Come on, doesn’t that sound peaceful to you? Just for a little while? A world without any people at all?

I don’t know, I think millions of people buy tents and backpacks to go looking for exactly that place.

Maybe. But the point I’m trying to make is that I do not advocate killing anyone to achieve some organic utopia.

I know, it’s ridiculous, but you should read some of my mail.

Oh yeah.

Like I said, I let other people deal with it.

No, that’s different.

Of course not.

No, no, if I’d had a weapon I’d definitely have used it.

It’s perfectly consistent. They’re two different categories.

Absolutely. Look, I’m not a pacifist. I have deep respect for the courage and commitment of pacifists but I think sometimes you have to use violence to defend yourself or others.

I sure hope so. And I think most people believe the same thing. What we know is most people are wrong.

Did you ever see Cool Hand Luke?

No, the one where George Kennedy’s pounding him.

Great cinema. But . .

Exactly. Not in a million years. You’d need a healthy conscience and a capacity for self-examination. That’s a tall order for guys in stir.

Nah. Most guys like that would have beaten ol’ Luke to death and laughed about it later.

Right. So sometimes there’s a need for self defense. But it’s not a final solution.

Because it doesn’t address the conditions that led to the violence in the first place.

I sure as hell think they did. But I’m saying killing them doesn’t change whatever made them want to kill us, do you see what I’m getting at?

Look, we’re not going to figure it all out in the next ten minutes, I just want to point out that poaching people’s brains isn’t enough. It’s just an indication that we have social responsibilities that aren’t being met. The goal has to be to prevent the conditions that lead to violence, not to fill the air with popping noises.

Well, it’s certainly crossed some kind of threshold. Everybody knows he’s real.

Sure.

Right. We got all kinds of invitations as you can imagine. This just suited me.

There’s no going back, not after he started showing up other places. I became a freak and the only place I fit in right now is the media circus.

Well, as I just indicated, my feelings haven’t changed. I think human beings are fundamentally flawed, that was the point I was making with my reference to Milgram in your first interview. We can be loving and generous and selfless, but most of us, maybe all of us, are hard wired with some latent capacity for the most twisted and extreme expressions of hatred and violence. Ignorant, superstitious religious tribalism seems to be the leading motive for people to butcher one another, but not everyone needs to be a zealot. People will participate in wholesale murder, even of women and children, even if they don’t personally believe in it, even if their particular superstitious religions tribalism forbids it, if they’re just ordered to do so. That’s man’s inhumanity to man on an industrial scale, but it’s the tip of the iceberg. Personal physical and sexual abuse are epidemic in every corner of the world, even in the best neighborhoods. This is old news. In the long run it probably doesn’t matter, we’ll find a way to make the whole planet uninhabitable if we don’t exterminate ourselves first. So, as a species, I don’t think we have a chance as a long term success. But I was profoundly inspired by what I saw those people doing in the Sudan. When our little friend started making repeat visits, the people at Novae persuaded me that maybe I could help. I don’t think it will change the outcome, but since I have the choice, I decided to be one of the good guys. Now . .

Exactly. There’s a new player in the game. On the other hand, we have no idea how long he’s going to stick around.

Ultimately, I have no idea. But I think human nature is the problem and I don’t see how he’s going to change that.

I could certainly be wrong. I hope I am, but that doesn’t change the way I feel about it.

Sure.

The idea is that I have some kind of notoriety because I’ve been face to face with a cosmic killing machine and lived to tell about it. They thought maybe I could help in certain circumstances. If there’s time for negotiation they want to bring me in to see if I can help persuade people with guns that it might be in their best interest to make a deal before the Tin Man shows up.

Yeah, that’s what I call him.

I hate that name. It’ll probably stick but as long as I have another option I’ll use it.

Because he’s not god or an agent of a god.

I’d say he’s a pretty strong argument for extraterrestrial intelligence. Beyond that I have no idea.

Because it’s pointless, I’m certain to be wrong.

Maybe you’re right. Certainly lots of people agree with you, I just don’t see it that way. Look, until you can direct me to some oracle with a magical conduit to cosmic truth, all any of us has to work with is speculation and I could easily be wrong about everything. In fact you’d probably be better off betting against me if there was money on the table, but I’ve been closer to him than anybody else, and all my intelligence, instincts, and intuition tell me he’s not a living organism, he’s a machine. I don’t have a crystal ball either, but I have a working hypothesis and I don’t see any reason to change it until there’s a compelling empirical foundation for it.

And I’m perfectly at ease with that. I have no interest in trying to persuade anyone of anything.

It’s your show.

I was actually in Cairo trying to be a tourist when Paul Degan called me from Novae. They had me on a plane within thirty minutes. The hostages had been taken about ten am, I was on the scene just after one thirty. Paul was trying to coordinate things with the Saudi army, the local police, the US Army, it was a mess. Everybody said they were in charge, but it was command by committee. I sat on the hood of the car and watched the mosque for more than an hour.

Eventually things got sorted out to the point where guys with the guns agreed to see me, and only me. Paul said he’d argued for an interpreter but they insisted they had someone who could speak English. Anyway, I said sure.

I know, it was stupid, but it seemed to me at the time that it was what I was there for. So, I was escorted to the barriers by Saudi police and turned over to two of them. They took me by the arms and hustled me . .

Yeah, it surprised me, they were pretty rough.

I think everybody did. I sure as hell did.

Doesn’t matter, by then it was too late. And once I was in the building they just tied me to a column and threw a hood over my head.

Nope. I’d be willing to bet some of them did, but I was told all they were speaking was Arabic.

Yeah, it wasn’t long. I could hear the crowds going wild while they were tying me up, but I didn’t think much about it, I was occupied with other matters.

Exactly, or just cut my head off.

Well, obviously I didn’t see anything but it was over in a hurry. The terrorists could hear what was going on outside and started yelling Devil! Devil! but not for long. He came through the door and everybody with a gun developed an instant migraine. I guess they fell like dominos. For the second time in less than a month he roasted the central nervous system of some poor bastard holding a Kalashnikov to my head.

Yeah. It was the smell, I recognized it immediately. CNS stew.

I know, I can’t help myself.

That’s what they tell me.

Right. He came in and headed directly for me. He made one sweep of the room with his head to hose the kidnappers, but apparently didn’t break stride while he was doing it. He walked right up to me and snatched away the hood. Then . . right.

At least this time I knew what to expect.

I could hear him walking towards me.

C’mon, think about it. He’s a steel robot eight feet tall walking on a marble floor.

Ok . .

No, of course not. It’s what everyone wants to hear about. It’s sure as hell what I’d want to hear about.

No, it’s true, I really thought I had ‘em closed.

I can’t.

Not exactly. And it was a shock. I mean, a physical shock. I don’t know how this kind of thing works, if it’s nerves or muscles or what but I’m still sore from it.

Yeah, across my shoulders and my chest. I’ve still got a headache, but there are plenty of explanations for that.

You had to ask didn’t you? No, not this time, thank God.

Oh yeah, only I was standing up so I was a lot closer. But it was the same experience. Look, I’ve had to consider over the last two weeks that maybe my memories were affected in some way by the stress I was under at the time. You know, I was close to the edge, maybe it affected my perception in some way. Well, it didn’t.

I can’t say that either. All I have are some sensory impressions, I have no way of knowing what’s really going on in there. All I can do is relate how it appears to me, and it appears to me it’s a hole leading somewhere else. His head is bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. Much bigger. Much, much bigger. You’ve heard all this before, I’m just confirming what I said the first time. It really seemed like I was looking through a window into deep space. It wasn’t like I had the sense there was anything out there either, it just looks like a lot of nothing. And once again, it seemed like it took a lot longer than it did. Not an hour like I said the first time, I was exaggerating. But it seemed like a couple minutes to me and it was actually only a few seconds. Then he turned and waltzed out of the place.

Right. A billion people watched him stroll through the square and go inside. No one ever saw him come out again.

All of us, I mean every last one of us, watched him walk out the door.

I have no freakin’ idea. FM.

Eff-ing magic.

Hey, I’m being good.

Not necessarily. He could have showed up anywhere beyond the square, everybody was focused on the action at the mosque. If he went back the same way he’d have hundreds of people and a dozen cameras following him wherever he went.

Really? I hadn’t heard that.

I don’t remember that much about the layout. Which side of the square?

Ok, across the street? Well, that makes sense.

And nobody on the other side of that?

Ok, that’s interesting.

No, really. I mean, he had to come from that direction, but I didn’t know anyone had narrowed it down that far.

Sure, and I’m willing to talk about it. But you have to understand we’re about to cross the threshold into a place where I don’t know any more than you do. I can tell you what’s happened to me, what I’ve seen and heard and how I feel about it, but other than that I have the same questions you do and the same need to know the answers.

I understand how it might look a little like that. I just think he was just being thorough. First of all, I doubt he can tell us part, and even if he could, I was wearing a hood.

Yes, but I was the only one with a hood.

Anything’s possible. Maybe he was. Maybe he thought I was cute.

Not like that, jeezuz.

Of course not, I meant like . . let’s say you rescued some puppies. Maybe you’d take a shine to the only one you saw up close?

Well, I can save you some time. Who is he? I don’t know, but I think he’s a what not a who, even though I can’t help using personal pronouns when I talk about him. What is he? I don’t know for sure but I think he’s a robot of some kind. As an engineer I’d love to know how he works, at least as far as a human would be able to. Where did he come from? I don’t know but I’m guessing he’s not from around here. What is he up to? I don’t know the plan, but so far he shows up where people are pointing knives and guns at other people and steam puffs their brains.

That’s a tougher question.

No it isn’t. There’s no doubt he’s saved hundreds, maybe thousands of lives, but he’s not subtle is he?

Not just yet. I need to think about it more.

That’s about if for right now.

I’m sure he will.

You’re welcome. Sorry I don’t have more to offer.